40K 5th Ed: LOS Rumor Reaction

Bell of Lost Souls posted the latest round of 40K 5th edition rule rumors.  For the most part, I don’t get worked up about changes to 40K rules- I’ve only played 2-3 times in the past two years.  But this one really burns me:

Line of Sight:
There are no height levels, all terrain is true LOS (even jungles and woods). They will need to be modeled appropriately if they are to block LOS.

Now even the terrain is made obsolete by a new rule set!  As the person who frequently brings the terrain, I now need to bring and build taller terrain if I want to make sure LOS is blocked equally for all units.  Short trees need to be replaced by tall trees.  Short, fragmented ruins need to be replace by larger, more complete buildings.  If you’ve followed this blog at all, you know that most of my terrain pieces are cast in plaster.  Bigger terrain will mean heavier boxes, more sore backs and even worse fuel economy getting to events (OK, that last one is a bit of a stretch).

In related news – stay tuned for a new Warhammer Ancients army – those Chinese from 500 BC are not changing any time soon.

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  1. #1 by RonSaikowski on April 27, 2008 - 7:19 pm

    I’m going to add my 2 cents here as well (even though it’s all rumors until we can see the actual book).

    I certainly hope the possibility remains for both players to classify terrain before the start of the game and maybe aviod some of this “what you see is what you get” now. I have some models with some realy nice banners and now they can be seen because the banner sticks up over the building?
    This would bother me some, where’s the motivation to add some nice effects to your bases or add banners to your characters or do anything to a model that could possibly make it bgger if it’s only going to cause you headaches during the game because some clown says he can your model over the tree now.
    Enough ranting, I guess we’ll see when the book comes out for sure.

  2. #2 by xNickBaranx on April 27, 2008 - 8:21 pm

    Even back in 2nd and 3rd edition we discussed terrain before friendly games and in tournaments to be clear on how each piece of terrain affected the game.

    Thinking back, the only game where true line of sight was fiercely debated was Necromunda and I think that stemmed from the fact that there were so few models involved and the terrain was so dense – it forced people to be nit-picky. I wouldn’t sweat it.

  3. #3 by John on April 28, 2008 - 6:29 am

    It would make sense that if you can’t see the base of the model, (i.e) (but the banner is sticking above the building) you’d get that 4+ cover save they are talking about. While in personal games you’d of course want to discuss terrain before hand, (as 50/50 to hit a whole unit when you only have 1 banner slightly visible is tough to swallow) The object of these “bulletproof” rules is obviously to try to help out the tourney scene that is year by year slowly killing itself
    When I don’t know a single person
    who would voluntary play in an organized 40K tourney, there is a big problem. Between the FAQ’s, unbalanced books, and it reputation for conflict the atmosphere in “competitive” 40K has become toxic.
    Hopefully 5th ed will bring people back to earth.

  4. #4 by chicagoterrainfactory on April 28, 2008 - 7:58 am

    I would not expect banners and the like not to be an issue. 40K already states that little bits and pieces like that don’t count for LOS.

    What worries me is a situation where a tree base (a 6-8 inch diameter MDF base with removable trees) with 2 trees of different heights. How do you draw LOS on that? Is the base split down the middle? What if the tree is on the other end of the base? Do I need to put 5 trees on a base to make sure the whole base counts as cover?

    All of this is not an issue if your playing on one table in your basement, but it becomes a major supply headache if your hosting a 10 table tournament. Or a huge blow up for conventions like Adepticon which runs with 100 40K tables.

  5. #5 by Fritz on April 29, 2008 - 12:02 pm

    Problem is two people often don’t see the same thing and we aren’t even talking about the power gamers and rules lawyers out there. The three tier system was perfect for 40K. If everything is “true” LOS then get readt for lots of belly crawling wraithlords!

  6. #6 by Cailil on May 1, 2008 - 2:02 pm

    If it’s true it has its own pros and cons. On the one hand it might encourage armies of belly-crawling, squatting and crouching troops but it’ll also encourage people to model terrain properly.

    Chicagoterrainfactory you do some of the best work I’ve seen on the web and I understand your frustration with the possibility of having to re-do models. However, I’ve played people who frankly abuse “count as” with terrain. One tree in the middle of a 5″ base is not good enough to represent a woodland that totally obscures LOS everything behind that 5″ base.

    Yeah there’ll be teething problems, but WYSIWYG does encourage people to build terrain and model figures more fully.

    On the other hand I wont be putting my Vespids “up in the air” until I find out if this rumour is true or not.

  7. #7 by James on May 20, 2008 - 3:01 pm

    I got an early copy of the book over
    the internet from the inside, and this rumour is no more then that, as line of sight works the same as before, so no need to worry about the size of your terrain pieces

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